The Healthcare Crystal Ball – A Peek into the Future

Dr. Cooper

What if you could peek into a crystal ball and see the future of healthcare, would you do it? Well, can’t exactly offer you a crystal ball, but our guest is the next best thing when it comes to health and healthcare design. Welcome to the latest episode of the Catalyst Health, Wellness, and Performance Coaching Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Bradford Cooper of the Catalyst Coaching Institute. And today’s guest is professor Moyez Jiwa, a practicing physician in Melbourne, Australia, and the editor in chief of the journal of health design. And just for good measure, cause he didn’t have much going on, he also happens to be the associate Dean and professor of health innovation at the Melbourne clinical school university of Notre Dame. On the coaching front, the last chance to pursue the NBHWC approved coaching certification through the Catalyst Coaching Institute before the rates go up and still be on track to sit for the national board exam in early 2022 is now just weeks away. Reach out to us anytime and we can set up a time to talk through your questions, Results@CatalystCoachingInstitute.com or you can access all the details at CatalystCoachingInstitute.com anytime you’d like. Now let’s peer into that health design crystal ball with professor Moyez Jiwa on the latest episode of the Catalyst Health, Wellness, and Performance Coaching Podcast. Dr. Jiwa, it is fun to have you join us. Thank you for making time.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Thank you so much, Brad. And please and please call me Moyez.

Dr. Cooper

Yes, you got it. And that’s easier for me to say too. So I appreciate that. So you’re the editor of the journal of health design and I was looking through it, last few episodes or last two issues. And you take an interesting look at obesity. So I’d love to jump out of the gate, talking through some of that. You have one headline that jumps on the sitting is the new smoking, with snacking is the new smoking. Love it. What does that mean to us though? As individuals, as coaches as anyone trying to make the most of their life?

Dr. Moyez Jima

Okay. So I think the way to test this is to look at the ads that we had for smoking in the 1950s and sixties. And then look at the ads for chocolates and biscuits as we are now offering them to the public in 2000 and whatever. And there’s a real resonance. So what’s happening essentially is that we’re using food for pleasure. And that is a real problem because a lot of the time we’re escaping from difficult circumstances in our lives and our jobs, uh, by looking for pleasure. Food is one of those things it’s very dangerous because it’s high density, calorific meals that we’re having in between our, our lunch, breakfast and dinner.

Dr. Cooper

Right, right. Um, ah, that, that completely makes sense. So in terms of obesity, you’re a physician you’re working with physicians, you’re speaking with physicians on your podcast. By the way, throw out the name of your podcast. You and I just had a chance to visit on that last time, just so people can follow you with that. If they’d like, while we’re at it,

Dr. Moyez Jima

It’s called a health design podcast.

Dr. Cooper

Perfect. And we’ll have a link to that in description for folks, but what is the role of physicians in managing obesity? This is such a big issue. It’s a struggle for so many people. There are not easy answers. Are we to solve this 30 years ago. For physicians though, our son just started med school. So I’m extra curious on this. What is the role for physicians and maybe speak on this topic from two different angles, one the general practitioner, the family practice doc that has that long-term trusted relationship and then maybe the orthopedist or the neurologist or the specialist that maybe they only see once in their life or once every five or six years in. Is there a difference in the way those different physicians will address this?

Dr. Moyez Jima

I think that’s a very good question. And firstly, the orthopedist the specialists are seeing it as often as we family docs are seeing it. So rates of obesity, overweight and obesity are 60 to 80%. So unless you are only managing patients who are normal weight, you’re going to see it every day, day in, day out. It’s going to impact on your results because obesity and surgery are not a good mix. Right? Right. So I think that the difficulty from the family physicians point of view is that there’s very little time in the consult to deal with this. Now, yeah, sure, you might have a relationship with a family or an individual that spans many years, possibly many generations, but you only have a very short time to address the issue. And often the issue is appearing at a time when people are least likely to attend doctors. So, you know, late, uh, late adulthood, uh, or early middle age, uh, older people, that’s when it’s beginning to show its effect and the time when you can most do something about it, when you’re in your late twenties, early thirties, forties, you’re not going to see the doctor going to see the doctor for minor things. So for the doctor to then lecture you about your weight becomes really problematic.

Dr. Cooper

That is a great point. I had not thought of that. So that key window of opportunity for the physician, for the patient, we’re missing it because there’s no reason to go. There are plenty of reasons, but generally speaking people skip those 15 year period from 26 to 41 or so. And then they wake up and say, oh my gosh, I better get in touch with my family doc.

Dr. Moyez Jima

That’s exactly right. And in fact, you don’t think I better get in touch with my family doc, because as far as you’re concerned, you don’t have a problem because when you look around you, everybody else is, you know, XL and XXL clothes. So you don’t see it as you you’re blind to the fact that you have a problem.

Dr. Cooper

And, and those problems are they’re just waiting behind the curtain to attack us in those 50, 60 seventies in terms of blood pressure, diabetes, Alzheimer’s all these other things that are related to something that’s hiding in our twenties, thirties, and forties.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Correct. And you know, when you go to work, the classically, what you do mid morning, you go for a coffee with a friend, right? And what do you do? Then you have a biscuit or something and you’ve taken on 500 calories before you even start. You don’t see that as a problem because you see that as part of the culture, part of the routine of going to work.

Dr. Cooper

So for the physicians listening, what, what is your advice? What can they do differently in those? And I think when we were chatting yesterday, you said about 20 minutes per patient, here in the US it’s probably closer to seven to nine minutes. Uh, in that limited time, without simply lecturing or handing them a to-do list, what can a physician do?

Dr. Moyez Jima

I think we need to be very careful how we handle this, because if we decide we’ve got a role in this, we need to have the resources. We need to have the time and we need to have the skills to deliver the message. Otherwise, all we do is make a bad situation worse by focusing the patient on a problem that they don’t recognize when they’re dealing with a whole bunch of other things, whether that’s their blood pressure or their diabetes or whatever it happens to be, which by the way takes at least that much time to deal with in the console. Right? So I think we need a rethink in the way we approach the problem of weight management for our community.

Dr. Cooper

Any, and I kind of set up this interview as this you’re the crystal ball, man, you, you, you got the eye on what we’re going to be doing the next 10 to 20 years. Do you, what, what changes do you see coming that may positively impact that? Both for the physicians and for the patients?

Dr. Moyez Jima

I think we need to think about where people are and often they spend, as we said yesterday, in our conversation, we, they spent most of their time at work. I think here is a role for people who are not necessarily in medicine, but who are working with people who see the impact of these problems on their lives, who see what a break time looks like in the work environment and to work with people at that point. So my team are working on, uh, on innovation. I’m sure many others are where we’re producing avatars. That show you what happens when you put on weight and what, when you lose weight. And we’re specifically focusing on what you look like when you stop snacking. What you might look like in the next 6, 8, 12 months, if you stop snacking, because we all know that exercise has a very limited role in weight management. Your results are largely based on what you put in your mouth. And so putting aside the fact that you’re not going to have abs, if you stop snacking, you’re certainly going to lose weight. And if you lose weight, it’s the right step in the direction of getting the body that you want and let’s face it. That’s all what we’re all after the drivers for many people are not to do with what’s going to happen in 20 years time when I get diabetes they’re to do with, what am I going to look like at cousin Joe’s wedding six to 12 months. Yeah. Yeah. And we can provide that crystal ball, as you say.

Dr. Cooper

So I love this. I can literally go in and plug in me and it’s got a picture of my face and my body, the way it is now. And if I stopped snacking or I reduced that by 50%, then it’s going to show me what I’m going to look like six, 12 months from now. Is that what you’re saying?

Dr. Moyez Jima

Exactly. Right. So we have the technology to do that. It’s not particularly complicated. The algorithms are all in the back of their computer and it basically spits out an image of what you’re going to look like in six to eight months time, should you stop consuming 500 calories more than you are more than you need this week or next week, or whatever happens to be. And if you keep that up, you can see how your body will change dramatically. But the other nice thing about it is that if you don’t do that, it shows you that it’s not going to be a disaster in the next week or two. If you fall off the wagon and you know, you had happened to go to hungry jacks or whatever it happens to be, it’s not the end of the world. This is not the fun police. This is to help people to achieve the results they want.

Dr. Cooper

And truly visualize it in a real way, you know, your way. So I’m loving this because about 10 years ago, when some of the, um, the principle that you could plug in that you wanted a wrench and the printer would literally print out a wrench for you. Now, it wouldn’t be the same as what you get built in a, uh, machine factory, but you need to partner with one of those folks. And then do you know what bobble heads are? Is that a thing in Australia? You guys big and bobble heads. So in the US, a lot of the athletic teams will put out these bobbleheads and there’ll be like the bit, your favorite baseball player and have kind of a little tiny body in his big head. And it just, it just bobbles. And so people will keep these on their desk. And just when they’re laughing and joking, they’ll be like, oh, here’s my, you know, LeBron James. And they’ll just have his little bobblehead up there and it ends a big deal here. You need to partner with those folks because how cool would it be for me to have two bobbleheads one, if I stopped snacking two, if I increase my snacking and that sits on my desk and I look at the two and I go, which Brad do you want to be today, buddy? So just saying something out there for you to add onto that. Um, one of the other things in the journal that it talks about is the role of alcohol consumption in obesity for middle-aged men. And I’m assuming women very similarly. Can you talk through that a little bit with us and at what levels is it any, is it, you know, medium levels? Is it more than the recommended daily allowance? Those kinds of things. Just walk us through that concept, get, get this spinning around in people’s heads a little bit.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Oh, okay. So my experience as a family doctor, and I’ve been a family doctor for 30, more than 30 years now, is that alcohol generally is a problem at any level that you consume alcohol and it’s not, and that’s not being, you know, that there’s no particular, uh, other reason for it, other than thinking about health, because along with alcohol come a whole bunch of other habits. So you’re sitting in front of the television and you’re watching a game and you’ve got your beer. You’re going to want something else to go with that. So you’re going to consume chips. So you’re going to consume peanuts or whatever happens to be dense calorie full of, you know, bad food. And so while you might think I’ve only had one beer, you’ve also consumed a whole bunch of other things. Um, and of course the more you drink, the more calories you’re consuming as well. So it’s not just the food, it’s the calories in the actual alcohol. And of course, when you’re drinking alcohol, your inhibitions are down. Your bobble head is not the one you’re focusing on. You’re watching the game. And so there goes.

Dr. Cooper

So the alcohol matters, but it’s more what accompanies the alcohol. It’s more what the alcohol leads to the thoughtless activities that are going on accompanying the alcohol.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Yeah. It’s the pizza, it’s the chips. It’s all those things that, you know, we automatically assume are part of the fun of having a beer. Right,

Dr. Cooper

Right. Okay. That makes sense. Uh, so you and I met through your wife, uh, who taught an exceptional course on storytelling. I said, any of you who are Seth Goden fans out there? I found Bernadette, his wife, amazing wife through Seth Goden. I took the class back in 2018, but the journal featured this topic a couple of years back, it talked about a patient’s story that has a huge impact on the proper diagnosis for physicians. Do you see artificial intelligence being able to tap into that storytelling? I’m wondering if that’s one of the aspects where AI will, we’ll never quite replace the physicians relationship ability to tap into that story, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Dr. Moyez Jima

I think that’s exactly right. So you’re talking to somebody who loves to see patients face to face. I think when we are distressed, when we have a problem, when we want comfort, we don’t want to talk to a machine. When you talk to people who are involved in technology, they say, well, you know, the machine is going to have eyes. It’s going to be, you’ll be able to look at it. And it it’ll feel like you’re looking at a human being it’s going to be, you’re gonna be able to put your fingers in a particular place and feel as if that that machine was holding your hand, et cetera. I don’t buy that, frankly. I think we need other people when we are in trouble. Uh, it’s different if you’re going in to get a repeat prescription for something, and the machine is able to work out when you, when you took your medicines, um, how many are left or, and all those other things and your biomarkers all could be fed into the machine. But when it comes to telling stories, I believe there’s no alternative to another human being.

Dr. Cooper

Okay. So let’s run down this rabbit trail, physicians have limited time. And so they’re most likely removing in many cases, the story aspect of that visit and focusing on the biometric data. Yeah. What words of wisdom do you have either a for physicians or for patients that are looking for a physician, maybe they’re 40 years old, they’re starting to wake up to the idea of, of rebuilding this relationship of looking for a physician who gets that. How do you, how do you, besides watching your watch and going, oh, that was seven minutes. How does a patient find that physician who gets the story side?

Dr. Moyez Jima

So it doesn’t take 20 minutes to get someone in the mood to tell a story or to get a story out of someone. And the way you know, you’re in the right room is how you’ve been greeted and how you’ve been treated in the first two minutes of that meeting. Right? If your doctor is at his computer or her computer wholly for the first two minutes of your consult, I would stand up and leave because that person is not focused on you and your needs. It doesn’t take much to turn around, face your knees in the direction of somebody, look them in the eye and shut up and listen for two minutes. Now it takes two minutes. And in that two minutes in that pregnant pause, you are going to blurt out your deepest, darkest secrets. Trust me, remember Colombo. That will be simplified.

Dr. Cooper

So you and I remember Colombo, but most of our listeners are going Calum, what, what, what is the thing? What is this Colombo thing?

Dr. Moyez Jima

That’s a shame. Just look him up on YouTube.

Dr. Cooper

I love it. Um, all right. So how about for the physician who is saying, I get it, like, I believe that I just I’m so rushed. I’m just, so do you have any encouragement for that person? So you can put your arm around them and say, it’s going to be okay. Here’s why.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Yeah. I would say, just try it. We always, we’re telling ourselves a story in our heads. Oh, you know, the administrators are not going to be happy unless I plug in all this data, et cetera, et cetera. If you’re on such a rat wheel in such a hamster wheel, you need to get off it for starters. And besides which being rebellious is not a bad thing. Rebel, just for two minutes, two minutes say this is me time, me and my patient time. I’m going to give this my best shot. Because at the end of the day, we doctors go into this so that we can serve people. That’s where the joy comes in our work. And if you’re not going to get that out of your work, what else are you getting? Do you want to just be a data monkey, which is essentially what many people have been turned into?

Dr. Cooper

Yeah. I come out of the physical therapy world. I’ve been a PT for almost, I guess, 30 years now. That’s scary to say. Um, and I remember when we switched over to HMO’s in the mid nineties, probably there was a big push for time. And one of the things I tried to encourage people to do, I was not always good at it, but things I tried to do was realizing that if you do exactly what you described, if you invest that first two minutes, truly listening, it generally decreases the time you need in the other aspects of the evaluation, because they’re going to give you the key information and then you can guide your stuff. So it’s not as if you’re, you’re having to, you talk about rebelling. You’re not having to say I’m just not going to listen to the administrator. You’re saying, wait, if I invest this two minutes, my other 18 will be better spent.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Correct. And you will more likely meet the needs of that administrator by investing the time. That is actually part of the equity of the relationship between doctor and patient. As soon as they feel that you’re engaged with them, as in the patient feels that you’re engaged with them, they’re going to, they’re going to want to work with you. And that’s what we all want. We want our patients to work with us, not say, you know what? I’ll just listen politely to his ear because that’s what I’m looking at right now for about whatever, however long, this lasts. And then I’m going to walk out of here. I’m going to find a second opinion.

Dr. Cooper

Yeah. Yeah. Good. All right. Your podcast focused on better health by design. We talked about the name of it before is health design podcast. Uh, what are some of the most important things you’ve learned from guests over the years? What are the things that jumped out at you and you went, oh, that’s, that’s really good.

Dr. Moyez Jima

I think that the thing that I got most out of the podcast are the stories. Uh, and I would say that, uh, otherwise.

Dr. Cooper

Bernadette is not going to be happy with you.

Dr. Moyez Jima

She’s not going to be happy tonight. Um, it’s the stories, it’s the fact that people, when given a chance will tell you a story that is so much more powerful than a lecture or a PowerPoint presentation or anything else that, so let me tell you a story. This is a story from one of my guests and the story goes like this. So it was in the 1950s in Alabama, uh, in the US and this a five-year-old boy lacerated, his forehead, and his mom took him to the hospital to have the laceration sutured. Now, at that time, there was segregation, as you know, in the US and the doctor, a white doctor to put the sutures into this child’s forehead, and the mom realized that she didn’t have money to pay for that procedure. So she said to the doctor, which often happened in those communities, why don’t I pay you forward, I’ll pay you as time goes by. I’ll pay you a little bit each week and we’ll cover this. And the doctor took the sutures out. Now that story was told to me on the first anniversary of George Floyd’s death, extraordinarily powerful story. And he ended up person who told me the story said, this story is still a part of some Americans lives. And so I realized then that, you know, Bernadette was right. It is about stories. How much more powerful is that than a political statement about the kind of indignities that some people have to suffer, not just in the US by the way, but across the world.

Dr. Cooper

Sure. No, I think that resonates so well. I think a lot of people listening to you share reshare that story. We’re, we’re just kind of sitting on the edge of our seats going no, no, no, no, no, no. They’re not really what, and so you’re right. That, that simple, short 45, second story carries more weight that will stick with people. It’ll stay with them. It will remind them when they’re in a similar situation where they could be that doctor or that mom. Yeah. I, I love that.

Dr. Moyez Jima

There are so many layers to that, there’s about commercialization of medicine. There’s about in inequity layers about the indignity we heap on one another and the layers of the humanity of the person who accepted that they, she had to, she had to accept that situation and deal with it. Then she did, she took the child to a veterinarian. That’s what happened because that’s what needed to happen in order and in what led, what led to the outcome of that was the boy, the 11 year old, then 11 year old boy, my guest on the podcast, Ron Wyatt went on to become an extraordinarily gifted physician because he wanted to change that.

Dr. Cooper

I’m going to be different. I love that. Love that. Um, tell us more, like you, you got me drawn in here. Is there another one that jumps off the page where you’re like, oh yeah. And then there was this one, keep it coming my friend.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Well, there, there were some, some awful stories I have to say. And the other one that really struck home for me was the story of this woman who brought her child to the hospital with encephalitis. So the child had clearly got an inflammation in and around the brain and there was a need to do a lumbar puncture. And she said that the attending had said to her, let me know if you need me to yell at anybody. Why would I need to do that? Well, you know, things happen at this hospital, which really shouldn’t be happening. And what happened. In fact, the night the child was admitted was that she was subjected to three or four attempts at a lumbar puncture by medical students. The child was extraordinarily distressed and mom had to call, mum was a physician had to call time and say, please, please stop. Get somebody who is better qualified, better experience to see to my child. Uh, that was another extraordinarily powerful story that reminds me that as a physician, not to take things for granted, that sometimes seeing things from the eyes of the person who you’re trying to help can sometimes shock you as to what you’ve allowed yourself to do.

Dr. Cooper

I heard that interview that you did with her. I, that was very, very well done. Um, let’s, let’s talk the practical implications for those listening who are not physicians, which would obviously be the majority of our listeners. What in today’s healthcare, in the world that we’re dealing with, and obviously it’s a little bit different Australia, US, Europe. We’ve got listeners in all three. What would be your advice for the patient to get through this crazy map called healthcare?

Dr. Moyez Jima

I think it’s important to find a doctor that you’re comfortable with and, and for all the stories that we hear, there are some extraordinarily talented, caring, compassionate human beings out there who are in the profession. So it’s not as if you are fighting an uphill battle, you will find somebody and then for the partnership. And it’s really important to take, to have agency take control of what you can control, think about what you can do today to help yourself. And that’s a key message. I think we found that obviously through COVID more and more folks are not able to go and see a doctor. So more and more people are beginning to try and understand a bit more about what’s going on with them. We talked about obesity, you know, there’s a, and it’s, it’s not a term that I think we should be using. It’s a, it’s a weight management issue, you know, it’s, am I managing my weight? Am I looking after myself? Am I exercising? We were talking yesterday. Am I sleeping enough? Uh, you know, is that beer every night necessary? Is that something I can do something about? Because at the end of the day, we know that medicine is a commercialized entity. We know that people are making money out of it. And therefore there isn’t a perverse incentive for us to keep going to see doctors, right? I think we are, and it’s not that doctors are bad. I think it’s simply that we have the wherewithal to help ourselves. And we should take that, take that power back and, and use it.

Dr. Cooper

Great advice. And then there’s the evidence-based aspect that you and I have spoken about offline. And in our previous conversation, there’s, as people do try to take more control of, they try to improve their health. As they try to look at their alternatives that are out there when they’re not there with their doctor and don’t have that guidance, there’s just so much junk out there. There’s just so much bologne or headlines or feds, any advice on a practical side that would help people tap into that? I mean, our whole focus of this podcast is to focus on the evidence. So we have people like you on here, but any advice for folks that are there online, or what resources to look for, how to tap into the stuff that’s real versus just the clickbait and all the junk, that’s promising big things, but there’s nothing behind it.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Yeah. I think that’s a very, very good question. It’s difficult to give an exact answer because it’s caveat emptor, isn’t it buyer beware and that’s, that’s good advice. So I think the first thing to ask yourself is who benefits from this, that I am offering. Um, and, and the other thing is who’s paying for this service that allegedly is free and what who’s getting something out of this, other than myself, if you ask yourself that fundamental question, every time you are offered something, you will begin to understand what’s bogus. And what’s actually out there that is aimed specifically at you and wants to serve you.

Dr. Cooper

And then in terms of the credibility of those, giving the message, you and I are doing a podcast who are we like, I hope people realize we have that background, but anybody can do a podcast. Anybody can have a YouTube channel, and there are so many things. Anybody can do a blog. And there’s so many things being passed around as, oh, look, what I found, this is, this is nothing like this. This person doesn’t even know they have no background in this. How does that person cut through the crap that’s out there and get to the actual literature-based research, evidence supported, et cetera, et cetera. Are there a couple of things that we can help people just tighten that up a little bit more?

Dr. Moyez Jima

I think we need to be very aware of how social media is constructed and the algorithms behind social media. So if you’ve been looking at what we now know to be false news, you’re going to get more and more of it and it’s going to be clickbait. So if you’re looking at your own device and you know that you’ve been looking at, you know, hydroxychloroquine as the cure for COVID, you’re going to get more of that kind of thing on your device and more that kind of junk being sent to you. And it’s going to be very persuasive because it’s not just you and I that know about the power of stories. Lots of other nefarious organizations know about the power of stories and they will use them mercilessly in order to get what they want. So be very careful about social media, get somebody who clearly has the qualifications to do to guide you in the way that you would like to be guided. And that that organization is properly administered that there is a structure behind it. There’s, there’s ethics, there’s a responsibility. There’s a code that governs the people who look after you from that organization. And medicine’s a good one, uh, most of the time.

Dr. Cooper

So, which was that one, sorry, which was that?

Dr. Moyez Jima

That one is a good one. Uh, medicine is a good example in the sense that you’ve got ethics behind it. Um, but again, you’ve got to still be on your guard. And when you’re offered that, say bariatric surgery, for example, look at the evidence for the benefit, right. You know, bariatric surgery is one I worry about because we, we know that cutting out large bits of your bowel will make you thinner. But what we don’t know is the long-term effects of that. Unless of course you’re critically ill and that, unless you lose a lot of weight really quickly, your life is in danger. If you’re borderline weight and someone’s offering you bariatric surgery, I would be thinking twice. Even if that person happens to be a doctor.

Dr. Cooper

Yeah. Good. All right. Surprise us. Let let’s talk about some of the things that you’ve been most surprised about in terms of your guests, the insight they’ve brought to you that you’ve even with your background 30 years, plus, as a GP have said, I didn’t know that. And then you looked into it and sure enough.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Yeah. I think as I said to you, it’s the stories, it’s the, it’s the power that, it’s the surprising things that people do when they’ve got their back against the wall. And you know, what I discovered was that people were people who were critically ill, people who are given a terminal diagnosis, went on to do really well when they decided that they were going to take agency, they were going to find a solution. They were going to, they’re going to research their situation. That was, and that was a very pleasant surprise because mark by-in-large, that seemed to work for those guests. Then there were people who were so at ease with themselves and so able to accept the status quo, so able to live with what was going on. And there was an extraordinary piece that they brought to the conversation and a feeling that even when bad things happen, sometimes the results are not as awful as we imagined that they will be. And often patients are said to have said to me, the best thing that ever happened to me was that I got cancer because it changed my way of looking at the world. It made me a more generous person. It made me a more, um, the person that I, I would like to have been all my life. And that was, it came, it comes to a real surprise when you hear stories like that. Yeah.

Dr. Cooper

So I’m hearing two different extremes. I’m hearing the person who digs in and says, all right, um, I’m all in. I’m going to do my research. I’m going to talk to people. I’m going to make some changes. And then on the other side, the acceptance piece, is that ever, is there ever a way to combine those two?

Dr. Moyez Jima

I think so, because even when you are cured in inverted commas of an awful illness, you are not the same person. And there are, you know, the, the best example I can give you is BJ Miller, who is this physician who lost a one arm and both of his legs through a horrible accident. When he was 19 years old, he was horsing around on top of an electric train, stood up and turned and grab the cables above him and lost his limbs. Extraordinary, man, who’s gone on to be an extraordinary physician, palliative care physician, uh, deals with death and dying every day. And, and with all of his, um, restrictions on his physical abilities, it has gone on to be on the world stage has been a guest on Oprah. Um, and every day helps people come to terms with the fact that it isn’t going to end well. And he does it with such grace.

Dr. Cooper

And yet he pursued big things in the process.

Dr. Moyez Jima

And yet he pursued big things that didn’t stop him doing amazing things.

Dr. Cooper

Um, all right. So let’s pull that crystal ball out one more time. Are you optimistic about the future of healthcare? What are your, what are your thoughts about where we’re heading with this?

Dr. Moyez Jima

I’m very optimistic about the future of healthcare, both from the point of view that technology is going to help us to achieve great things. I talked about the future, me, the one that I, the avatar one, and that’s a very small example of the kind of thing the technology is now allowing us to do, but also that the customer, if you want to call it that, and I don’t like using the word customer in healthcare, but let’s use that for the moment. The customer in health care is morphing. They are becoming much more enabled. They’re becoming much more awake to what’s going on around them. And I think there’s now an acceptance that healthcare isn’t just about doctors. It’s about all of us. It’s about our employers. It’s about the people who are at work is going to, are going to help us do to be more healthy and be more mindful of how we treating ourselves. And I think there’s also a, an awakening amongst the population. We are heading into difficult water with our weight, our smoking, our sedentary lifestyles. And if we can do something about that, and many more of us are doing more about that, then we can avoid the catastrophe that awaits, which is, you know, one and two of us with cancer and dementia and heart disease and all the rest of it.

Dr. Cooper

Tele-health is said to advanced at least a decade due to the pandemic because people are forced into that. And so something that was moving along just incrementally, all of a sudden went, boom, is that good or bad? Is it a mix? What, what are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Moyez Jima

It’s good. It’s good in a sense that people who couldn’t access doctors are now able to access, and it’s better to have some access than have no access at all. It’s bad if we think it’s going to replace the office visits face to face the face to face for all the reasons that I’ve explained. I think, you know, if you’ve got a chronic illness, a long-term illness and you’re going for follow-up or a coaching session with somebody, it’s fantastic to get a telehealth consult, but when you’re in trouble, when you’re bleeding from somewhere, or you’ve got a lump somewhere, or you got symptoms that you’re not sure about, you want to see somebody face-to-face.

Dr. Cooper

Yeah. Good. All right. My friend, this is great. Just want to open up kind of wide open, any final thoughts, anything that I haven’t tapped into that you’re saying, oh, Brad, you got to ask him about this. I got to say something about this. Any words of wisdom you’d like to leave the listeners with that I haven’t done a good job of drawing out yet?

Dr. Moyez Jima

I don’t think so. I think you’ve done a fantastic job, Brad. Uh, uh, I would just say that how we communicate with one another is so important in the sense that we are used to facts being relayed to us all the time. And sometimes the better way to get information is from somebody who’s walked the walk and talks the talk and to, and that is much more powerful way to reach deep inside ourselves if we want to make a change in our lives.

Dr. Cooper

Doc, thanks for joining us. This is great.

Dr. Moyez Jima

Thank you so much.

Dr. Cooper

Thanks for tuning into the number one podcast for health and wellness coaching, and thank you to professor Jiwa for providing his insights about the future of health in this week’s episode. If you’re looking for additional information about health and wellness, coaching, feel free, as always reach out to us anytime you’d like Results@CatalystCoachingInstitute.com, we’ll set up a time to chat and you can access additional resources at CatalystCoachingInstitute.com anytime you’d like. Next week’s episode is a hidden gem featuring an orthopedic surgeon who sounds nothing like an orthopedic surgeon. He often suggest things like skipping the MRI, waiting on surgery, reanalyzing your arthritis and other guidance that is evidence-based, but definitely caught my attention and many others. It’s one of our most popular episodes of all time for a very good reason. Now it’s time to be a catalyst on this journey of life, the chance to make a positive difference in the world while simultaneously improving our own lives. The essence of being a catalyst, this Dr. Bradford Cooper, of the Catalyst Coaching Institute, make it a great rest of your week. And I’ll speak to you soon on the next episode of the Catalyst Health, Wellness, and Performance Coaching Podcast, or maybe over at youtube.com/coachingchannel.