Sabryna Liddle, NBC-HWC

Brad Cooper

Welcome to the latest episode of the Catalyst Health and Wellness Coaching Podcast. My name is Brad Cooper, and I’ll be your host. And today’s episode is pretty unique. About four or five months ago, back in October, we posted an episode that was a little recording of a coaching session taking place. It wasn’t planned, it wasn’t scripted. It was just a coaching session and you loved it. It is one of our most popular we’ve ever done. And so we asked around and we were able to arrange to repeat that today with two different people. So you’re going to hear a different coach than you did last time. You’re going to hear a different person being coached. Again, our goal of this podcast is to help you, whether you’re a current coach and you’re wanting to improve your skills or you’re on the fence, you’ve been thinking about it. You’ve heard of wellness coaching, and you’re trying to decide is, is this really something I want to do? Well what better way to answer both of those questions than to have an actual coaching session recorded for you? So we’re going to do this today. We’ve got two guests here in the studio, Sabrina Liddle, nationally board certified health and wellness coach. She was actually invited out to the ICHWC meetings to help put together questions for future national board exams. You can catch her, she was on an earlier podcast where she talked about that experience. She’ll be the coach today. So Sabrina is the person who’s behind the coaching mic, if you will. Her client is Jamie Cook and Jamie is also a nationally board certified wellness coach and a nurse. But today she’s been kind enough to basically be willing to bare her soul for you. It’s likely to get personal. And I hope you’ll keep that in context, but we really appreciate her being willing to take her coaching hat off and step into that client role during the session. Again, if you’re a current coach, think about what Sabrina is doing. Think about the process she goes through and some of the questions she asks and how she moves from one thing to another. And see if there are things that maybe you’d like to integrate into your coaching. If you’re pondering, whether you want to become a coach at some point, well, this is a good chance for you to see it in action. As always feel free to reach out to us with any questions or additional information you’d like or something that sparked your interest from something they said, the email is Results@CatalystCoachingInstitute.com that’s Results@CatalystCoachingInstitute.com. Now sit back, relax, and let’s listen in to a real live coaching session.

Sabryna

Hey Jamie, I’m so excited that you are here today to be coached by me.

Jamie

Me too.

Sabryna

What are you wanting to chat about today?

Jamie

I guess it would fall under the category of life balance ish. Um, and so one thing that I’m kind of struggling with right now that I was really looking for, um, some help with, so I’m glad that we’re talking today is I have some unstructured time in my life currently. So I have some free time, which is not something that traditionally I have had. Normally I am very over busy and I thrive that way. And the more structured my life is, and the more limited time that I have, I get so much accomplished and now I have some free time and it’s a great opportunity to use it and I’m wasting it. And so that’s frustrating to me that I’m not getting some, just some projects done that I wanted to get done. I’m not taking advantage of that time to do some other fun stuff or be productive. And if anything, I feel like I’m getting less done because I have the mindset of, Oh, I have extra time. So I could do this then.

Sabryna

Right. It’s such a great concept. You’ve probably been dreaming for this day where you have this time and now you’re finding yourself back in that mode of, Oh my gosh. I think I’m more productive when I have more things on my calendar.

Jamie

Completely.

Sabryna

Um, what are just some things that you’ve been dreaming about that you could do with the time?

Jamie

So things that I’ve been dreaming about, which sounds a little silly is perfectly organized closet. Like I, um, I have been dreaming about, um, organizing some closets at home, painting our bathroom, um, doing a couple other little house projects that I just don’t usually get to. Um, but then also, um, making some more plans with meeting a friend for coffee or lunch, like a friend that I don’t see very often, um, that it’s just, you know, a good opportunity to reconnect there. Um, and then just, I like to read, I like to, sew I haven’t sewed very much the last few years because it just hasn’t been at the top of my priority list. And so things like that that now I should take advantage of.

Sabryna

Right. So lots of things. Oh my gosh. Like home projects, social wellness, social, uh, reading, sewing. So gosh, all these things that, that sounded like they would really make a difference for you in like just basic happiness.

Jamie

Yes. I think so. And kind of stress management too, because, um, I think if some of these projects that are always just in the background of my mind were done, then that would be kind of, I don’t have to think about that anymore. And, um, if I took advantage and did some meal planning, now that I probably have time to do that, um, that that would make dinners less stressful and make sure we stay on track with eating healthy. And so I feel like it is kind of all connected.

Sabryna

Right. It’s interesting. Because what I’m hearing is is you have all these ideas, like lots of great ideas. And I’m wondering if the fact that you have so many, that it’s almost paralyzing because you don’t know which one to start with.

Jamie

Oh, that’s interesting. I hadn’t thought about it that way. Now that you say that. I think part of my time-wasting is, is I think, okay, I want to do this, this, this, and this. And I just kind of spin my wheels without actually starting anything. And then all of a sudden I’m like, Oh my gosh, I’m I don’t have near as much time today as what I thought I had.

Sabryna

Right. Cause it seems like all these things, all these things are kind of different. Like the home projects have a start and end, but meeting with a friend for lunch takes some pre-planning and then reading and sewing, it seems like, again, you’d have to have an idea of what you want to do. Right. So I’m wondering if you haven’t tapped into your unstructured time because the things are so different in your unstructured time. I’m imagining it’s just these varied blocks in your week.

Jamie

Yeah. It’s random days. It’s, you know, a few hours here, a few hours there, mostly while the kids are at school.

Sabryna

Okay. Have you thought about prioritizing all these things?

Jamie

Um,

Sabryna

And are they even prioritizable?

Jamie

I was going to say I kind of a little bit in a way, like, have you ever heard of this book, um, called eat that frog?

Sabryna

I have. I actually got it from the library.

Jamie

Um, and so I’ve kind of, sometimes I use, if I feel like I’m not productive on conquering my list of things, then I’ll go with that, eat that frog book, um, philosophy of like do the worst thing first or like the thing you’re least looking forward to, to get that out of the way. And then you can move, you know, move along. So, but I don’t really know what the frog is on my list of what I’d like to do with my time. So I’m like, Hey, I don’t really see that that fits, but that’s about the extent of, I don’t know.

Sabryna

It doesn’t sound like that idea actually connected with you, but it is an interesting concept. Do the thing you want to do least first. Right. That’s, that’s just an interesting concept. And maybe that isn’t, you know, maybe that’s not the best way for you personally to go about like doing some of these things that you actually want to do. Um, you think about the list of things that you’ve just told me. Were there certain ones that stood out as more important to you?

Jamie

Um, gosh not necessarily. Like I like organized closets, my husband and kids, I don’t think could care about that at all. So for me, like I would get enjoyment out of that. Um, however, I feel like, um, you know, seeing a friend that I haven’t seen in a while, I might not always have the time to do that. And now I do. So that would also bring me joy and also is something that might not fit in, you know, like when I’m overly busy in life. Right.

Sabryna

I’m wondering if we could do a little exercise for a second.

Jamie

Okay. I’m game for anything.

Sabryna

So dream that next week goes exactly how you want it. Okay. You’re using this time. Okay. Let’s just, just, just focus on next week. What’s happened. What are you working on?

Jamie

So everything goes exactly how I want it. I would say kind of a combination of all of it, because I would just use the time that I have really efficiently, where I can work on some things at home and meet somebody for coffee and, you know, read a little bit. And um, I have some, a sewing project that is not gonna take me very much long, longer to finish. Um, I, I feel like if I use all of my time in a purposeful way, I feel like I would be able to do all of those things. I mean, maybe not start to finish, you know, but do some of everything.

Sabryna

Right. So you’d be, you’d actually be able to tackle a little bit of maybe all the things you mentioned.

Jamie

I think so.

Sabryna

Okay. So in this, in this dream, how did it come about?

Jamie

Um, that I just knew how I was going to use my time and actually did it.

Sabryna

Okay. And so how did you know you were going to how you were going to use your time?

Jamie

Well, when I’m super busy, um, one thing that it works for me is, um, I just know, okay. I have, you know, from seven to seven 30 and I’m going to, and I assigned something that I’m gonna do during that timeframe. And I’m good at sticking to it because I know that I only have seven to seven 30 or whatever it is. Um, and so when I have all that structure and a limited amount of time where it has to get done, I’m great at getting it done.

Sabryna

Okay. And how do you keep track of all that time? Like the seven to seven 30?

Jamie

Um, sometimes if, sometimes I’ll actually write out on a piece of paper my whole day. Okay. Um, you know, like wake up at whatever time and go to the gym and then I alot time for, you know, coffee and shower. And then when I’m working and then stopping at the grocery store, like I’ll kind of list it all out. I started that way back in college.

Sabryna

Okay. So you map out the day specifically, like by hour when you’re super busy, do you, do you do that for every day of the week or, or do you do it one day at a time? How does, what does it look?

Jamie

I don’t do it every day of the week. I do it when I start to feel like I have a lot that I’m thinking I have going on and then it just then helps me realize how I’m all going to get it done.

Sabryna

That it actually can all get done. Yeah, yeah.

Jamie

Right. Instead of just having it like swirling in my brain.

Sabryna

Yeah. Then you take it out of your brain.

Jamie

Yeah. I take it out of my brain and put it on paper and then I say, okay, this is how all of these things are going to happen. And then I’m pretty good at sticking to that.

Sabryna

Right. Okay. So how, so this has worked for you in the past for when you’re really busy and you get a ton done. So how can we make that translate into now?

Jamie

That’s where it gets stuck.

Sabryna

Okay. Cause, um, cause you don’t want to, do, you don’t want to structure it?

Jamie

No, I, and I’ve I’ve so I’ve tried my, you know, doing that, but, um, it doesn’t really work when I have no deadlines or accountability or, you know, none of these things necessarily have to get done.

Sabryna

Okay. But you have these things that you want to get that you want to happen. Are those things written down anywhere?

Jamie

Um, they are not.

Sabryna

Okay. So they’re all swirling around in your head.

Jamie

They are.

Sabryna

Um, so I’m wondering if, if that would help, cause it’s helped you in the past to get your, these fun things that you have, um, out of your head and somewhere where you can see them so that you you’re like, Oh yes, these are the things that I want to spend my unstructured time doing.

Jamie

That’s a good thought. Cause I, I, I’m a to-do list kind of person. Like I like seeing things and I like crossing things off. Um, and that, that’s probably something that would maybe make it more tangible for me to do something about it.

Sabryna

Okay. Do you mind if I share, um, something with you? Like just a, a way that, like a way that I have found this worked for me?

Jamie

Yes, please do.

Sabryna

Okay. So I have a planner and it is of course handwritten and it has all the days of the week. Um, when you open up like to the page that you’re in and it has a place for what you want to get done personally for the week, just like a list and what you want to get done for work. And so what I do for the week is in that personal spot, I might put, meet with Deb for lunch, um, work on, you know, work on, um, painting the closet, buy paint, um, get the sewing project plan. Right. So it’s just a place. And so then the that’s I see it, but it’s not structured. Right. I just know that I want to do those things for the week. And then as the week happens, I kind of fill in the days with where I think it could, where I could do it. And it doesn’t necessarily mean I have to do it then, but I’m always kind of have an eye on those things for the week. So, what are your thoughts on that?

Jamie

Well, I like that thought because I think seeing it would increase the importance to me of acting on it. That’s an interesting idea, plus I liked that how you said it’s just things that I want to do this week is in this little separate box.

Sabryna

Yeah it’s in a separate box, which I always love though, but it’s so funny because I will do something and I’m like, I love crossing things off too. So like woohoo look I did it! Yeah. So I don’t know, like when you think about that concept of doing that, and then you think about like what you have now, like in your life, you know, cause I don’t know how you schedule things. Does it match, does it, is it something that’s possible?

Jamie

Um, no, I think it’s definitely something that’s possible. And I’m just trying to think then how would I get it from, you know, that little box to actually happening, happening in the day. Okay.

Sabryna

Okay. Well, that’s kind of, I don’t know. Let’s kind of like talk about that for a second. So you have your box and it has your things in it. How, how then do you typically do your days? Your best days?

Jamie

Well, I mean my, my work on the days when I’m working, um, then you know, that’s blocked out whatever time. Um, but then the other things that I do, um, some of it, I actually put on my calendar, um, cause I have a friend that I meet for yoga and I have another friend that I trail run with. And once we make those plans, I actually put it on my calendar, you know, yoga with Jen and I run with Susan at whatever time, um, things like, you know, when I go to the grocery store and whatnot, then that’s on my little paper list of, um, how I’m using my time that day. If that makes sense.

Sabryna

No, it does make sense. So something like, when you talk about the sewing, you you’d want to spend some of your unstructured time sewing. What, what would sewing look like in your time?

Jamie

Um, right now it would just have to be short, easy things cause I’ve gotten rusty. And so, um, I wouldn’t want to take on anything too ambitious because just the planning of it and you know, that wouldn’t be a quick reward where I feel like to get back into the sewing groove. Um, just some easy, simple projects. Um, and I don’t even feel like I need to. So, you know, certainly not every day or maybe not even every week, I just don’t want that to be something that always gets pushed out and ends up falling out of my life entirely.

Sabryna

Sure. So it sounds like there is like a first step to, to tackling the, get more sewing into your life. It would be like deciding on what you’re going to do. So that might be like the, the bullet that you would have. Right. Decide on that. So I’m wondering if it’s almost like looking at each of these things that you’re talking about, like the organized, I want to have perfectly organized closets and really thinking about what the very first step is for each thing. Okay. And then kind of putting it in this new box box that, you know, we don’t know we’re talking about here and then that it would become more tangible so that when you looked at your week or even your day, you’d be like, Oh wait, I see this unstructured. I see a block of time out of all my things that I’m thinking about now, you know, the first step

Jamie

I think that would be helpful because I think, I think I waste a lot of time thinking.

Sabryna

Right. So do I.

Jamie

Uh, you know, if I had, uh, you know, organized closets and then, you know, next to that, what is the first thing I’m going to do about it then? Okay. I’m ready to just get to it instead of.

Sabryna

Instead of it swirling around in your head.

Jamie

Maybe that’s the problem. I think I’m, I think I’m just in a circle of thinking about everything I want to do without actually having the step of, okay, what am I going to do next about this?

Sabryna

Yeah. What do you think about that concept? I mean, it kind of, you kind of talked about the whole thing of how, when you were, when you’re really busy and you have to structure your days, that to get it out of your head, you, you kind of, you know, you get it out of your head.

Jamie

And I think I spend less time thinking then, because I have less time.

Sabryna

This is not good having apparently too much time to think.

Jamie

Yeah, like I want to run, I need to text Susan and make a plan, you know? And whereas now I’m like, Oh, you know, let me think about this.

Sabryna

So, okay. So when we went, let’s go back to that dream, the dream of like you having the week where you tackled, um, you tackled like your fun list and the list of fun things, how do you feel after that week?

Jamie

Super accomplished. And then when I’m productive, whether it’s, you know, stuff that I don’t like, like doing a mountain of laundry or stuff that I love, like going for, um, a beautiful trail run, either one of those, when I do something like that, then I get satisfaction because I feel like I’ve accomplished something and I really liked that feeling. So I think I would feel that I think I would feel, um, less stressed because things would be a little bit more in order. And I like that. And not just my closets in order, but also like our meals for the week. And just, um, so to me that is, um, comforting. And so I feel like my sense of satisfaction would be up. My stress would be down. And I would have the benefit of, um, seeing people that I haven’t seen in awhile if I actually followed through with my plans. Um, and you know, whenever I do that, that always feels great.

Sabryna

Right. It’s interesting. I keep, you know, when the word that sticks out to me from what you just said is your satisfaction would be up. So you would increase your life satisfaction because it’s funny, well, we didn’t talk about this. Laundry is never structured, but somehow we as moms find ways to fit it into the day. Right. And that’s funny. So you fit laundry in. Right. But here where you are, you’re like you want to fit these other things that increase life satisfaction. Getting laundry done, the last time I checked was really not it’s satisfying, but not like having a clean closet for the first time ever. Um, so yeah, I could see where all these things would just.

Jamie

Well, and I think that’s like, like exactly what you said, life satisfaction. That’s what I feel like having some free time. It’s such a gift. And I just want to be able to look back and be like, Oh my gosh, look at how I used all that time. Gosh, it was so fun. And I saw this person and I got this done and I don’t want it to be like, wow, that was a lot of time that I wasted thinking about what I wanted.

Sabryna

Right. We need to like replace the time, thinking about what you’re doing with your time, doing what you wanted to. I love it. That’s the goal. Right. Um, okay. So we know that you would increase your life satisfaction greatly, um, by getting things, things done. We’ve talked about a couple things about possibly how to go about it. What do you think now? Like what do you think? I don’t know. What do you think your next step is?

Jamie

Um, let’s see. I think the next step is to get something specific on my calendar to get the ball rolling. Um, and so I think that should be, um, reaching out to someone that I haven’t seen in awhile to meet for coffee or some or lunch or something, because that would need to actually go on my calendar.

Jamie

And, uh, that’s a good place to start. And I think in terms of life satisfaction and joy, that would probably be the best thing and something that I don’t always get to when I’m too busy. Um, and then the other things maybe listing out and then right next to it putting the first action step.

Sabryna

Okay. So like what would, what would be the first action step for the closet?

Jamie

Um, for the closet? Well, it would depend, I guess I need to decide which closet.

Sabryna

Well see, there you go. Still so many thoughts in your head.

Jamie

Um, so that’s, I think the first step, which is which closet. Because I think it’s unrealistic to think I’m going to address closets all, you know, in one day.

Sabryna

Yeah. Well that’s a bad thought. Okay. So that’s great. So thinking about which closet. Okay. So starting with the, it’s interesting starting with almost the easiest one, right. But also good ones, scheduling time with a friend reaching out and then picking a closet, the closet, um, kind of zooming out a little bit to keep this action of replacing, thinking about items versus doing items. Can you think of anything else that would keep you in the mode of doing rather than thinking?

Jamie

Hmm. Doing, rather than thinking, I mean, I guess just figuring out what is the best way to get this down on paper. Since for me lists are effective keeping, you know, my little on days where I do list out my actual time for the whole day, like that works for me. So somehow incorporating it into that type of paper.

Sabryna

Yeah. Visual. Yeah. So that’s almost, I feel like that’s, you’re not like a research goal, but it’s like kind of deciding like the best process for you. Right. Like, if it’s a project notebook or I don’t even know what.

Jamie

Right. And that’s where I’m, I think I get a little stuck with the thinking is I don’t have, um, I’m not quite sure yet, what is the best route for me to take these things that I want to do out of my head.

Sabryna

Um, so you haven’t had anything in the past that you’ve used successfully that we think could be?

Jamie

Um, no, not particularly because I mean the most successful thing that I’m at is my, when I write out that day, how I’m going to use that my time and that’s usually on a post-it note or a piece of notebook paper or something. Cause it just address addresses that day.

Sabryna

So it goes back to kind of zooming out and thinking how to take what you do on a day that I’m successful and do it for like a week, like for a bigger chunk of your time. Right. I think let’s kind of, you think, I know we’re just going to be thinking, but I do think it’s fair to you to give you time to think about possibly the best way to move forward because we, where you’ve come to the conclusion that getting it out of your head is a good idea. Right? So now we’re just thinking the goal is to figure out which system might be the best, but you’re, you already know that maybe you’re ready to start with at least reaching out with somebody and connecting with them and scheduling like a lunch date and figuring out what closet you’re going to pick to organize first. Um, and then that’s on your list too. Right? Determine, just determine the paper process, like whatever way you think, because right now you don’t have any ideas.

Jamie

Not specifically.

Sabryna

Okay. So I feel like we would have to meet again. Or what do you think? How do you think like about that whole idea of getting your, you know, getting some way to get it down on paper. Can you set yourself a deadline?

Jamie

Well, I think I need to look at next week, um, and try putting things on my calendar and see how that goes and then reevaluate with you. Okay. This is what I tried. Yes it worked or no, it didn’t. And um, you know, knowing that I was checking in about how are you using your free time? Cause that kinda, you know, like deadlines are effective for me. Right. So, um, kind of trying to do that, figure out how I’m going to use my time next week and I’m putting that down on the calendar. Right. And then seeing if that made a difference of whether I just thought about doing these things or actually took action on them.

Sabryna

Yeah. Cause right now your calendar is not, is not a handwritten calendar. Like there’s nowhere that you can kind of write and keep track of the things. Um, life satisfaction items?

Jamie

I have a paper calendar that I use just for work appointments. I don’t have a paper calendar for my personal life. I have just a digital calendar of personal stuff.

Sabryna

Gotcha.

Jamie

And then my occasional daily post-it note.

Sabryna

Right, right. Yeah. I think, I think it’s worthwhile you doing a week after us having this talk and kind of doing the things we talked about and then reconvening and seeing what you think might work better. Cause I’m thinking maybe the next time I talked to you, you know, maybe you’ll have, I don’t know, like seeing, you know, you’ve kind of done the, some of the actions and you might have a way you’re like, okay, I do want to try and figure this out. Right. It’s just more tangible.

Jamie

I think so. Plus I think once I get started then, and seeing how much I like it that’ll help me too.

Sabryna

Right. It would be nice to get a couple of these things on the calendar. Um, I think then is there anything else that you’re thinking about?

Jamie

I think that’s an, that’s a big enough homework assignment for today.

Sabryna

Okay. Awesome.

Jamie

Thank you.

Sabryna

You are welcome. Okay. So there concluded our coaching session with Jamie and now as coaches, we both kind of want to revisit kind of what happened, um, during the coaching session. So Jamie, what were some of the things that stood out to you as you were being coached?

Jamie

Um, some of the things that stood out is your questions, getting to the life satisfaction and why, why do I want to do things with my time and you know, what would that do for me? Um, because then that shows to me that this is important that I actually do something about this. And then also just trying to brainstorm and figure out what is, I guess learning style would be a way of describing it. I don’t know if it’s learning style or, you know, what, what method, um, for taking action since it kind of became clear that things are just in my head, they need to get out of my head. Right. Um, and then trying to experiment with what that might be. Right.

Sabryna

Did you feel like we came to a satisfactory conclusion at the end of your coaching appointment?

Jamie

Yes. Cause I wasn’t expecting with one coaching appointment that this whole thing was going to be wrapped up in a tiny bow. Um, especially since I don’t really have a clear answer of, Oh, I know exactly what’s going to work for me and what I need to do. Um, because that is unclear to me, um, which is why I haven’t done anything. And so, so I think it’s that we did come to a good conclusion and a good goal and somewhere for me to, to take and experiment with.

Sabryna

Right. I’m wondering if we had to, to say where you were at the beginning as far as stages of change versus at the end, what do you think?

Jamie

So I would say contemplation, um, at the beginning because I haven’t, other than knowing that I want to do these things, these things, I haven’t really done anything to try and actually make them happen. Right. Um, whereas now I feel like I have some specific things that I’m ready to try this week. So, um, so I think that,

Sabryna

So that’s maybe almost preparation stage? We have some action steps, right.

Jamie

So yeah. So preparation stage, so move to preparation stage.

Sabryna

Okay. Good. Is there any other thing that you can think of, um, with regards to the session?

Jamie

Um, not from my end, but I’m curious from your end, cause this was kind of, you know, not a specific, um, Oh, I want to work on more vegetables kind of topic. Um, what’s that like to coach that?

Sabryna

Yeah. I think, I feel like I coached this kind of topics many times with people and I think as a coach, uh, what’s important is to not feel pressure, to have always have a smart goal, I guess. Right. Like I don’t, I don’t think my goal was to get you an action stage. And so I think as a coach, you kind of have to realize that right. What I’m trying to do with you, Jamie is just trying to move you forward. That’s my goal. And so I think as long as a coach, as you kind of keep that in mind and don’t put pressure on yourself to come up with a solution or an answer, I think that’s the way to go with this. I don’t know. What do you think as a coach?

Jamie

No, I agree. I think it’s good. And I, I think if you tried to get too specific to kind of tidy this all up to completion, um, I don’t really know how effective that would truly be when I’m still kind of working through the process.

Sabryna

Right. I’m wanting to honor your, you know, kind of your autonomy, the fact that this is your, that this is your life, right. I don’t have any answers to give you because you’re not going to want my answers anyway. Um, so that’s always the kind of mindset that I try to use when I coach somebody in a similar situation.

Jamie

But I think a topic like this, which is why I was so excited that you were coaching me today is, um, something that talking through with a coach is helpful to try and, um, you know, help me dissect it. And what is it that, what is it that I want to do? You know, why do I think that I wanna do these things and then helping me start to figure out, okay, how am I going to create some action, right.

Sabryna

It probably felt good to like not have it all in your head anymore and have it out there.

Jamie

I know. Can I just take that piece of paper you wrote notes on?

Sabryna

Okay, great. Well that was our session and thanks Jamie for being coached by me.

Jamie

Thank you, Sabrina.

Brad Cooper

Thanks again to Sabrina and Jamie for doing that in front of a microphone, coaching is not easy. You know that those of you who are coaches, you know, it’s not easy, but doing it in front of a microphone and it makes it even tougher. So great job. You two are outstanding. And then thanks also for doing that little wrap up at the end. With that wrap up, I won’t add much to that. Just one comment that I was fascinated by keep in mind, Jamie, who was the person being coached is a nationally board certified wellness coach and a nurse. She knows this stuff she’s super healthy. She loves to run. And yet, in spite of knowing all of the pieces to it, there was still a lot that happened in that coaching session, the gap between knowing and doing that’s the magic of coaching. That’s how Sabrina was able to help her move, not tell her what to do, but help her move from point A to point B incredibly effectively. So that’s, that’s the fun part of coaching. Those of you who are doing it, you know that, but it’s just, it’s neat to hear that come to life. It’s not just a book. A couple of things just a reminder that if you’re nervous about the coaching certification and how do I move from understanding the techniques to actually doing it, you’ll actually do it. I mean, that’s part of the certification process is you’ll get a chance to practice it and practice it and practice it. The other thing that we’re hearing a lot of people talk about is they’re nervous about the national board exam. Now, not all of you are going to go that route, but those of you who are we’re hearing some, uh, you know, how do I prepare for that kind of thing? There is a podcast very early I believe it was August, 2018 that talks through that entire process. So you might want to take a listen back to that, but also over the last year, we’ve implemented a new piece of the training program that we offer and we haven’t added any costs to doing this. It’s complimentary if you’re part of the program and that’s a study session series that you can participate in to prepare for that exam. So just know that’s available. If that’s something you’d like to pursue at some point down the road. With that, let’s wrap things up. You can always reach out to us with questions, comments, suggestions. The email is Results@CatalystCoachingInstitute.com. The website has a ton of materials you can pull up on pretty much any topic you’d like. And that website is CatalystCoachingInstitute.com. As always, I want to thank those of you who go that extra mile and you give the thumbs up, you subscribe or whatever it is that iTunes uses to track all this stuff. We’re, we’re definitely growing and that’s because of you so very much appreciate it. We’d love to sign off with that idea of better than yesterday. Something we’re trying to pursue for ourselves, our clients, our families, our community, and keep in mind, it’s better than yesterday. It’s not perfect. It’s better than yesterday. The journey to our best self begins with better. And that’s what we’re trying to do. With that, we’ll close it out and I’ll look forward to speaking with you soon on the next episode of the Catalyst Health and Wellness Coaching Podcast.